Lionel vs ShittiBank
It’s my own fault, I suppose. It can’t be ShittiBank’s fault can it?
Allow me to explain.
I’m trying to upgrade my Flickr account to a pro account. Easy enough, you’d think, but you’re not taking into account the bloodymindedness of ShittiBank’s overzealous security department.
I entered the card details and pressed “continue” only to get the message:
There is an error in the payment method information. Please check the information and re-enter it or use another payment method. If the problem persists, please contact Yahoo! Customer Care.
I checked the information and re-entered it (because it was correct the first time). Again I see:
There is an error in the payment method information. Please check the information and re-enter it or use another payment method. If the problem persists, please contact Yahoo! Customer Care.
Grrrr. I seem to recall a problem with this bloody credit card when I was buying the monster lens from WarehouseExpress. Unfortunately, flickr doesn’t offer another suitable payment method. I cursed ShittiBank and – as if my magic – the telephone rang.
“Good afternoon. I am … from the security department of ShittiBank. Is this Mr d’Lion?”
“It is.”
We established my identity before the strange conversation continued.
“I am calling to verify two payments to Yahoo! Wallets were made by you.”
“There weren’t any payments because the website claims there was an error with my details. No payment was made.”
“That is correct. Was this payment for one dollar?”
“No. There was no payment.”
“Yes, but if there was a payment would it have been for one dollar?”
“No. It would have been for $24.95.”
“I see.”
“Can I just clarify something? You’ve just called me to verify that I tried to make payments but failed.”
“That is correct.”
“This means that the transaction got as far as your systems.”
“Yes.”
“And it was then refused. Did ShittiBank decline these payments?”
“Yes.”
“Why?”
“The security department monitors your account and blocks any suspicious transactions if we believe there is a possibility of fraud.”
“You think I’m committing fraud?”
“No, not at all. We believed there was a possibility that someone else was committing fraud.”
“Oh, ok. But you’re now satisfied that I am the cardholder and that I am trying to make this payment?”
“Yes I am. Thank you very much.”
I use my credit card so infrequently it would seem that I triggered some sort of stupid alarm. Never mind.
I give the idiot a few minutes to update their ShittiSystems and then return to flickr.com. Oh for fuck’s sake:
There is an error in the payment method information. Please check the information and re-enter it or use another payment method. If the problem persists, please contact Yahoo! Customer Care.
I ring ShittiBank and eventually get through to someone who is as human as their staff gets.
“How may I help you?”
“I’m trying to make an online payment but your security department is blocking this. I want to know why.”
“How do you know that our secu…”
“Because your security department rang me to verify that I was the cardholder and that I was trying to make the payment and they’re still blocking the payment.”
“Oh. Can you hold while I speak to the security department?”
“Oh yes. I’ll be very interested to hear what they say.”
A few minutes pass.
“Mr d’Lion?”
“Yes.”
“I have spoken with my colleagues in the security department and they have confirmed that they spoke to you.”
“Did they also confirm that they have blocked my attempts to make payment?”
“Yes, they did.”
“Good. How do I make this payment, then, if the security department is going to block every attempt I make? Does this card even work online?”
“Oh yes, the card works online.”
“I only ask because I seem to recall having the same problem the last time I tried to use the card online. In fact, I don’t recall ever being able to make a payment online using this card.”
“I think it is because the card is not used very often that the security department are monitoring payment.”
At this I may have raised my voice a little.
“THEY’RE NOT MONITORING USAGE – THEY’RE PREVENTING USAGE! THE CARD CAN’T BE USED VERY OFTEN BECAUSE YOUR SECURITY DEPARTMENT BLOCKS EVERY PAYMENT I TRY TO MAKE WITH IT.”
There was silence at the other end of the line. I lowered my voice.
“Sorry about that. This is rather frustrating. Can you explain to me how I can use this card to make an online payment?”
“You’ll have to speak to the retailer.”
“‘Speak’ to the retailer?”
“Yes. They will be able to put through a manual transaction.”
“I see. So what you’re saying is that the way for me to make an online payment is to make a payment over the phone.”
“Yes.”
“Not online.”
“No.”
“So how do I make an online payment with this card? Do you understand why I’m getting a little annoyed here?”
“I do. I will check with the security department. Can you hold?”
“Oh yes.”
She wasn’t away as long this time.
“I have spoken to the Security Department and that have confirmed that a manual transaction will be authorised.”
I took a deep breath.
“Ok, then. So we’re basically agreeing, then, that there is no point in my having this credit card if I ever want to use it online because your security department will block any online payment because it thinks they’re suspicious.”
“I cannot do anyth…”
“I’m not asking you to do anything other than confirm that what I’m saying is correct. Will the security department continue to block any online payment because I’ve not made many online payments before?”
“I cannot say.”
“I’ll take that as a ‘yes’. Right. I’ll have to make my online payment by phone, then. Ridiculous.”
“Is there anything else I can help you with today, Mr d’Lion?”
“You haven’t exactly helped me with my original query so I doubt you can help with anything else. Oh, wait. There is one question.”
“Yes?”
“Is this security department part of ShittiBank or part of Visa?”
“We are employed by ShittiBank.”
“I was wrong, then. You have helped me. I now know that if I change my card provider I will be able to get an acceptable level of service. Thank you, thank you so much.”
“But …”
“Can I just stop you there? Unless you are about to tell me that you can personally guarantee that the next time I try to use my card online it will be accepted, our conversation is over. There’s nothing left to discuss. Were you about to offer me that personal guarantee?”
“No.”
“Good afternoon, then.”
“Good afternoon.“
June 24th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
I know EXACTLY how you feel – I’ve gone through the same ****ing nonsense with Paypal who tell me it doesn’t recognise my card, and then tells me that I can’t register another card to that account because it already has one registered to it! Sheer arrant nonsense.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
haha. good for you. Hope you canceled shittybank’s card.
Lionel: I’m just arranging an alternative first, Lynne.
June 26th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Eeeeeuuww! I feel tired after reading that. I’d hate to have been the one actually involved in it!
As we say up here …. “nae luck”
June 27th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Okay. Would you rather the bank removed the fraud security in place, so that any attempted payment, anywhere, at any time, for any amount went through? And that you would personally be liable for every transaction ever made, even if fraudulent? Because that is the alternative.
I’m surprised at you – you definitely know that there is not a little man sitting there, personally declining your transactions, it’s all performed by ‘the computer’, according to probability based risk models.
Lionel: I’m surprised at you, Woman, if you’re suggesting that the only two possibities are either a situation where no credit card payment is ever allowed without speaking to the issuing bank or, on the other hand, a completely absence of any security.
For card transactions, there are 3 options – to accept the transaction, to decline it, or to refer it. I suspect in all these cases the response from the company is ‘refer’, but the online company aren’t going to go to the trouble of ringing the credit card company – so it’s the online company, not the credit card company who are actually stopping your transaction.
I don’t understand people getting upset at possible fraud referals – I’d much rather have a transaction stopped of mine, and then be verified, than for the card company to carry on allowing spend regardless, even if they think it might be fraudulant.
Lionel: I’ve got no problem with the first payment attempts being queried, but why did they bother to telephone me to check whether it was a valid transaction if they weren’t going to change the response from “refer” to “accept”? As for allowing any spend to carry on – they’d have to let an online payment slip through the net before any spending could continue. I suspect you mightn’t be quite as happy if every single online transaction you tried to make was stopped rather than just the occasional one, would you?
June 28th, 2007 at 7:41 am
As I already explained, they can only change the refer to an accept if the merchant rings through on the referral, with the code for that specific transaction. The alternative is to switch off the fraud detection, and as they are liable for all the fraud, not you, they aren’t going to do that.
If you are certain it’s every online transaction, then ask them why. But I’d be certain first, because it may just be certain types of merchants – ones notorious for online fraud – which they might be stopping/referring.
And I’m not ‘happy’ when transations get stopped, but neither do I foam at the mouth with rage. It’s just life in this day and age of naughty people who use fraudulant methods to gain cash.